Jeremy Bamber Discussion Forum

Quote from: Erik Narramore on January 20, 2023, 03:15:25 PM

Quote from: Zak Beresford on January 20, 2023, 10:56:20 AMWhy do the relatives seem to have a strong dislike towards Jeremy than to Shelia?

It has to be said that other than the occasional meetings and family celebrations etc. They had separate life's and were not the close.

I think we can all agree that Jeremys upbringing and general behaviour was a lot more trouble free than Shelias was

Hello Zack, nice to see you back.

I think it's likely the relatives disliked both of them, but appeared better disposed towards Sheila as she would have been perceived as less of a threat to their interests.  As a man, Jeremy was in a direct position to take over the farm.  Sheila, too, was in a position to do so, but more indirectly, through her twin boys, who may have grown up wanting to be involved in the various businesses.  However, the twins were still very young and away in London.

Agree Erik.

What's interesting though if we are talking from a relatives being jealous of Jeremy taking over and inheriting. It was a slow burning candle. He had been adopted by nevill and June from six weeks of age. He was their child. nevill was his middle name. It wasn't as if he was plucked from a care home at the age of 14. I find the term cuckoo completely childish and horrible to put it blunt.

Boutflour and co must have known from an early era that Jeremy would inevitably inherit all the assets. Then we are left with a situation that regardless of who committed the massacre. That boutflour and co jumped on the bandwagon and used the event to benefit themselves. Shelia gone. And to help engineer a campaign to put Jeremy in the nick.

There's the old addage of no smoke without fire. Though I must admit the idea that the relatives effectively "ganged" up on Jeremy to help put him away. I struggle now to see the difference that they genuinely thought he was guilty or they to put it bluntly just wanted the assets

Why do the relatives seem to have a strong dislike towards Jeremy than to Shelia?

It has to be said that other than the occasional meetings and family celebrations etc. They had separate life's and were not the close.

I think we can all agree that Jeremys upbringing and general behaviour was a lot more trouble free than Shelias was

Quote from: Erik Narramore on November 27, 2022, 06:39:48 PM

Quote from: Zak Beresford on November 27, 2022, 08:29:37 AMEverything about Jeremy bamber is split down the middle by people.

" He did not have a farming heart "

" He worked well on the farm "

" He was rude to his father "

" He was in awe of nevill and timid found him "

" He was spiteful "

" He was funny caring relaxed great sense of humour"

" He was workshy"

" He worked on a sugar cane farm in Australia worked at whf, little chef, sloppy Joes"

It seems that Jeremy was all things to all people. 

Somewhere among these QCChevalier/Gascoigne posts is a comment by me to the effect that we can find support for whatever view we choose about Jeremy or Sheila depending on who we ask.  If you ask some people, Sheila was virtually catatonic half the time; others say she was the life of the party and an excellent cook.  And so on.

It is all down to the agenda

I have never bought what the boutflour Eaton camp have said about Shelia or jeremy

The former because there was little time spent in her company
 The latter even less

It's not unusual I think that he wanted a police car there either arriving at the same g

Jeremy was the obvious suspect for one reason also and this is not a sexist remark Erik.

He was male.

If it had been a mentally Ill brother I believe it would have turned out very differently

Everything about Jeremy bamber is split down the middle by people.

" He did not have a farming heart "

" He worked well on the farm "

" He was rude to his father "

" He was in awe of nevill and timid found him "

" He was spiteful "

" He was funny caring relaxed great sense of humour"

" He was workshy"

" He worked on a sugar cane farm in Australia worked at whf, little chef, sloppy Joes"

Quote from: Erik Narramore on November 22, 2022, 02:53:25 PM

Quote from: Zak Beresford on November 20, 2022, 11:02:04 AMHave you watched the interview of Collins on Louie theroux where he specifically mentions Colchester?

Colchester as you may know was an army barracks town. In the late 1960s my father was based there. I also lived on layer road. Close to Colchester football club.

Very likely bamber knew some army people. Collins purports a theory that bamber may have hired a squaddie.

I don't personally believe he engaged a third party to carry out the killings.  If he is guilty, then he executed the plan himself and any accomplices - Julie or Brett, or both - were 'non-present' accomplices, or accomplices after the fact.

The reasons I dismiss the professional killer theory are:

(i). The killings involved the use of a native rifle.  I accept that the part of Jeremy's story where he left the rifle out could be true, even if he is guilty, on the basis that it is staged as a murder-suicide, but a professional killer would usually not agree to go along with this because of all the unknown factors involved and what could go wrong.  A professional would want total control of the situation and would suggest to Jeremy that it should be staged as a break-in and robbery gone wrong.  For one thing, how will he know that the rifle is still there when he arrives?  What does he do if Nevill has put the rifle away?  Go to the gun cupboard?  Does he then mess around loading the ammunition into a low calibre rifle of the type normally used to kill rabbits.  I do see the logic in this idea of staging, but it's not very plausible when you think it through in reality.

(ii). A professional would not do this alone, he would want at least two people involved in carrying it out, due to the need to control everybody in the house.  A professional minimises all risk and controls all anticipated variables.  The involvement of two killers multiplies the risk to Jeremy.  Now four people know: Jeremy himself, Julie, and the two strangers he has confided in.

(iii). The killings involved the murder of two small children.  If you look hard enough, you'll eventually find somebody nutty enough to kill kids for money, but you'll be looking for a long time.  It's not the 'done thing' amongst organised criminals and somebody in the armed forces would surely have moral qualms or, if not, would at least comprehend the risk being undertaken.

(iv). Let's say Jeremy does find such a person, or preferably two such people, then he/they would be deranged rather than 'professional', and therefore unreliable.  More risk for Jeremy, including the risk that the people he engages might be caught in the act or blab to somebody and it gets back to the police, and so forth.

(v). It's a complete stranger. Jeremy does not have much money in terms of ready cash.  You don't just walk up to somebody and say it.  Just approaching such a person would entail risk for somebody like Jeremy.  It could be a police trap, etc.  The person could go to the authorities and blow the gaff in exchange for a 'no prosecution' deal with the police (similar to what Julie actually did).  They could even do that instead of carrying out the killings.

(vi). Despite extensive and detailed discussion of the case by all sorts of people, with several police investigations and numerous documentaries, there have been no serious rumours about third party involvement.  I think if there were, the family would say so.  Both Brett Collins and Colin Caffell think Jeremy engaged a professional criminal of some sort, but neither can provide any substance or detail, it's just a vague suspicion (and probably unwise of them to voice it, as it sort of implies that subconsciously they don't really believe Jeremy could have carried out the killings).

I think regardless of guilt or innocence scenario those closest to jeremy probably couldn't figure out why he could carry out such a disgusting crime ( if indeed guilty)

1) jeremy had no history of violence
2) he was described by people who knew him as " effinmate"
3) He had never been in trouble with the police.

Also he most likely like the rest of us had personality flaws. But even so, how could anybody comprehend him committing such an atrocious act.

Quote from: Erik Narramore on November 22, 2022, 02:54:50 PM

Quote from: Zak Beresford on November 20, 2022, 10:57:45 AMBrett Collins did state he had proof of his NZ passport putting him in Greece at the time. EP were satisfied of this.

But as I have said above, what exactly is it they were satisfied of?  I am not inclined just to accept what people say.  You have to check things. 

However, like you, I greatly doubt Brett was actually a present accomplice.

Believe Collins stated he has his NZ passport with him

In fairness what is " good character witnesses"

In any sort of trial scope it all boils down to like you say" he seemed a decent chap, he was alright with me" " he fetched the sandwiches "

Personality witnesses will hold minimal bearing Erik

T

The problem is even if there was diamond thefts they were confident that he was going to be convicted of x5 murder and when in comparison the thefts fall into insignificance.

In their eyes he was going to jail for life.

Believe Brett held influence over Jeremy. Brett liked the good life and probably introduced jeremy to this back in Auckland in 1981.

Some seven years senior than bamber and a man of the world. Brett was a hustler trying to make a quick buck. Having no ties to the grief side of things

In fairness he did run a cafe back in NZ
I believe at the time

Could have been purely for business reasons.

Have you watched the interview of Collins on Louie theroux where he specifically mentions Colchester?

Colchester as you may know was an army barracks town. In the late 1960s my father was based there. I also lived on layer road. Close to Colchester football club.

Very likely bamber knew some army people. Collins purports a theory that bamber may have hired a squaddie.

All of Jeremys friends and acquaintances seem to be people older than him. Talking back in the day