Subduing Sheila

[Rob Garland]

I don't believe Sheila was sedated, firstly there is no evidence she was and also how is the sedative administered? If orally by JB putting something in her food that evening, then there is a good risk of Sheila falling asleep before she even goes upstairs to go to bed. If an injection while Shelia is asleep then this is extremely risky, probably resulting in Sheila waking up and screaming the house down.

Sheila would have been checked for needle marks at autopsy.

My biggest objection to Sheila being sedated is that JB would have made no mistake with the first shot.

Guilters bang on and on about plausible Sheila scenarios, but the police saw nothing amiss at the crime scene with Sheila being the perpetrator, and a scenario with JB being the perpetrator having to control three adults to me is next to impossible.

I think what we have to do Rob,is imagine we are Bamber at the planning stage and ask ourselves what were his options with Sheila,what had he decided to do? Just what was his plan,and what does the crime scene tell us?

There is no evidence that Sheila was drugged or tied up,so this was not in JBs plan.So what does that leave us with? Speed and surprise? The evidence shows that the twins were probably shot many times in quick succession,and June received several non fatal shots first,as did Nevill.So if speed and surprise was his plan,it went badly awry.

But even if Bamber managed to run from bedroom to bedroom and kill Nevill,June and the twins with one head shot each before Sheila was awake,he still had to get her to comply with being shot.Could he count on this? Was this his plan? That Sheila would simply give up and accept death?I dont think many of us would consider this as much of a cast iron plan.

Why not use the double barrelled shotgun on Sheila? At least that way the damage would obliterate any bruises to Sheilas face.Bamber could have punched her in the face and knocked her out before he shot the others.He could even have bound her wrists and feet with Duck tape to keep her at bay.

Anyway,if JB is guilty,what the crime scene shows is that Sheila just happened to freeze or faint at just the right time to allow JB to shoot her,yet he somehow still messed up and shot her in the neck and needed a second bullet up into the brain to finish her off.

So I suppose if we go by what the crime scene shows,we have to come to the conclusion that JB thought he could simply break into the Whitehouse and kill Nevill,June and the twins WITHOUT subduing Sheila in any way,deciding she would not run and escape if she heard any screams or comotion.

It is what the crime scene shows,so it is reasonable to assume if JB is indeed guilty this was his plan.Kill everyone else and simply ignore Sheila,she will simply stay put till she is needed then sit down and agree to be shot without a struggle.

So what is really most likely,the above,or Sheila taking her own life?

Now,you may be thinking that my post above is a ramble of nonsense,but if JB is guilty he did indeed need a plan,he had to make the crime scene look like four murders and a suicide.Now because there is no evidence of Sheila being drugged or tied up prior to being shot,the only conclusion we can come to is that either Bamber is innocent or his plan was to simply leave things to LUCK.

So in actual fact JB didn't have a plan at all,yet things that night worked out perfectly for him regarding the death of Sheila.Now that is lucky!

My thoughts Leslie if JB committed the crime are that his main priority would be to use just one magazine and not having Sheila needing to do two reloads. No skill was needed in carrying out the shots as all four victims were asleep in bed and from inches away.

He certainly would not use eight shots on the twins, and he certainly would not allow Nevil to escape the bedroom. Nevil would be the first to be shot in the main bedroom that is as he was the main risk, not June as the guilters say. So maybe three shots to the twins one to Nevil and four to June leaving two shots to commit suicide. I don't think this would have aroused any suspicion?

Evey aspect of the crime is just so risky, so many things could have easily gone wrong. Yet at every turn he seems to make the most idiotic decision possible?

He was actually financially in quite a good situation, he had shares, a house, a car etc. not bad for someone his age in those days.

The reason he nearly got away with it was because it was Sheila!

[Rob Garland]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

[Leslie Aalders]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

Yes,but the thing is Rob,if Sheila is guilty she didn't defend the boys,she shot them.But I understand what you are saying,it is only because Sheila had a psychotic episode that she shot her family.If she was in her right mind as the prosecution claim,she would have definatelly fought Bamber tooth and claw.I agree the fact that she didn't is a point in JBs favour.

[Rob Garland]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

Yes,but the thing is Rob,if Sheila is guilty she didn't defend the boys,she shot them.But I understand what you are saying,it is only because Sheila had a psychotic episode that she shot her family.If she was in her right mind as the prosecution claim,she would have definatelly fought Bamber tooth and claw.I agree the fact that she didn't is a point in JBs favour.

If JB committed the crime we have to assume Sheila is her normal self, if Sheila is the perpetrator then it was because she suffered an episode.

I thought this was interesting:

Who is at risk?

When a person with schizophrenia becomes violent the victim is usually someone from their own family or someone else close to them such as a carer. Attacks against strangers are extremely rare. When the attacker is female they will almost invariably attack their own children.8

[Leslie Aalders]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

Yes,but the thing is Rob,if Sheila is guilty she didn't defend the boys,she shot them.But I understand what you are saying,it is only because Sheila had a psychotic episode that she shot her family.If she was in her right mind as the prosecution claim,she would have definatelly fought Bamber tooth and claw.I agree the fact that she didn't is a point in JBs favour.

If JB committed the crime we have to assume Sheila is her normal self, if Sheila is the perpetrator then it was because she suffered an episode.

I thought this was interesting:

Who is at risk?

When a person with schizophrenia becomes violent the victim is usually someone from their own family or someone else close to them such as a carer. Attacks against strangers are extremely rare. When the attacker is female they will almost invariably attack their own children.8

Well one thing is for sure Rob,if JB is guilty he would have known that if Sheila found the boys shot to death she really would go berserk.

Now this takes us back to Bambers plan,or lack of it.Everyone agrees that JB would avoid fighting with any of the victims at all cost to avoid injury to his person.So what if Sheila gets up out of bed while Bamber is down in the kitchen and makes it to the twins room? If they were dead by then,which I believe the evidence shows,Sheila would attack Bamber when he returned upstairs and probably bash him to pieces with anything she could get her hands on.

She would be completely balistic,and there would be no way Bamber could subdue and shoot her,he would be very lucky if Sheila didn't kill HIM!

So the risk of going into the Whitehouse without a plan to subdue Sheila is quite nonsensical when you think about it,yet the crime scene shows that either this IS the case or Sheila was the assailant and there was infact no one TO subdue!

[Rob Garland]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

Yes,but the thing is Rob,if Sheila is guilty she didn't defend the boys,she shot them.But I understand what you are saying,it is only because Sheila had a psychotic episode that she shot her family.If she was in her right mind as the prosecution claim,she would have definatelly fought Bamber tooth and claw.I agree the fact that she didn't is a point in JBs favour.

If JB committed the crime we have to assume Sheila is her normal self, if Sheila is the perpetrator then it was because she suffered an episode.

I thought this was interesting:

Who is at risk?

When a person with schizophrenia becomes violent the victim is usually someone from their own family or someone else close to them such as a carer. Attacks against strangers are extremely rare. When the attacker is female they will almost invariably attack their own children.8

Well one thing is for sure Rob,if JB is guilty he would have known that if Sheila found the boys shot to death she really would go berserk.

Now this takes us back to Bambers plan,or lack of it.Everyone agrees that JB would avoid fighting with any of the victims at all cost to avoid injury to his person.So what if Sheila gets up out of bed while Bamber is down in the kitchen and makes it to the twins room? If they were dead by then,which I believe the evidence shows,Sheila would attack Bamber when he returned upstairs and probably bash him to pieces with anything she could get her hands on.

She would be completely balistic,and there would be no way Bamber could subdue and shoot her,he would be very lucky if Sheila didn't kill HIM!

So the risk of going into the Whitehouse without a plan to subdue Sheila is quite nonsensical when you think about it,yet the crime scene shows that either this IS the case or Sheila was the assailant and there was infact no one TO subdue!

A plausible JB scenario is very very difficult Leslie to me anyway, Sheila must have been woken by the noise and no way is she just going to sit in her room waiting her turn to be shot! JB has to make it look like suicide there is no way he can shoot Sheila in the way she was actually shot.

The police would have thought all this through at the scene, and I still believe Sheila died latter than the other victims. It would be difficult to plan such a crime, however JB's first priority would be to take out Nevil once he entered the bedroom, no way would JB allow Nevil to escape he was a crack shot up to competition standards. He would not have missed!

[Leslie Aalders]

Even the police scenario sent to the DPP points to luck on Bambers part.They have Sheila waking up and going through to the main bedroom of her own accord while JB is in the kitchen,then freezing and being forced down and shot when Bamber returns.

Now,I am not saying that the police scenario is wrong,but if it happened that way you are again agreeing that JB had no plan for Sheila,and left her to luck.Think about it,you have to be.You are saying that JB entered the Whitehouse that night,knowing he had to leave Sheila till last,BUT had no idea how he would go about it.

The only other possibility is that JB did have a plan to deal with Sheila and it worked,only it was so diabolically clever that not of us have worked out what it was.

The way the crime was carried out assuming JB is guilty would have needed an accomplice in my view, I just don't see how one shooter can keep control of the situation otherwise?

Sheila had her children in the house she would have tried to save them, not lie down to be shot. When AE made a remark about them making a mess with the marmalade Sheila cut her short! my belief is Sheila, Nevil and June would have defended them to their last breath.

Yes,but the thing is Rob,if Sheila is guilty she didn't defend the boys,she shot them.But I understand what you are saying,it is only because Sheila had a psychotic episode that she shot her family.If she was in her right mind as the prosecution claim,she would have definatelly fought Bamber tooth and claw.I agree the fact that she didn't is a point in JBs favour.

If JB committed the crime we have to assume Sheila is her normal self, if Sheila is the perpetrator then it was because she suffered an episode.

I thought this was interesting:

Who is at risk?

When a person with schizophrenia becomes violent the victim is usually someone from their own family or someone else close to them such as a carer. Attacks against strangers are extremely rare. When the attacker is female they will almost invariably attack their own children.8

Well one thing is for sure Rob,if JB is guilty he would have known that if Sheila found the boys shot to death she really would go berserk.

Now this takes us back to Bambers plan,or lack of it.Everyone agrees that JB would avoid fighting with any of the victims at all cost to avoid injury to his person.So what if Sheila gets up out of bed while Bamber is down in the kitchen and makes it to the twins room? If they were dead by then,which I believe the evidence shows,Sheila would attack Bamber when he returned upstairs and probably bash him to pieces with anything she could get her hands on.

She would be completely balistic,and there would be no way Bamber could subdue and shoot her,he would be very lucky if Sheila didn't kill HIM!

So the risk of going into the Whitehouse without a plan to subdue Sheila is quite nonsensical when you think about it,yet the crime scene shows that either this IS the case or Sheila was the assailant and there was infact no one TO subdue!

A plausible JB scenario is very very difficult Leslie to me anyway, Sheila must have been woken by the noise and no way is she just going to sit in her room waiting her turn to be shot! JB has to make it look like suicide there is no way he can shoot Sheila in the way she was actually shot.

The police would have thought all this through at the scene, and I still believe Sheila died latter than the other victims. It would be difficult to plan such a crime, however JB's first priority would be to take out Nevil once he entered the bedroom, no way would JB allow Nevil to escape he was a crack shot up to competition standards. He would not have missed!

Maybe Bamber suffered a misfire like Clint Eastwood in 'Unforgiven' Rob,when he was shooting Nevill.I would add a smiling emoji but I dont know where they are.