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#91
And why was Jodi's hands tied behind her back? What was the purpose of this,wouldn't she have been dead at this time?
I thought maybe it was done to copy the Black Dahlia murder if Luke was guilty,but it doesn't look as if Elisabeth Short had her hands tied behind her back,not in the crime scene photos anyway.

The thing is,Jodi had severe defensive wounds on her arms,so it wasn't as if she was simply knocked out and bound before being butchered,was it?

So what did happen? Was she slashed in the arms and beaten unconcious before being undressed and bound for the final stabbing?If Jodi was beaten unconcious,why not just kill her,instead of waiting untill she is undressed and tied up?
I just dont see a logical reason for tying up Jodi.Am I missing something obvious here?
#92
A lot of the statements dont make sense,on one hand it seems Luke was waiting for Jodi at the Newbattle end of the path,yet we are told that Jodi was not allowed to walk the path on her own.So,if Luke knew Jodi was not allowed to use the path on her own why did he phone Jodi's house to say she hadn't arrived?
How could Jodi get to Luke if she wasn't allowed to use the path on her own?

Is this a fact,did Luke always walk the path to the Easthouses end of the path when he was meeting Jodi?
If so,why didn't Jodi's step dad Ovens ask Luke if he had walked to the usual place at the Easthouses end of the path to meet her,why wasn't things clarrified between Luke and Ovens regarding everyones whereabouts at that time?

Then we are told that Luke was making the supper at about 5.00-5.15 and that his mum gets home around this time,yet Luke leaves his house to meet Jodi about 5.30-5.40,that isnt very long to eat your supper is it?
But probably long enough I suppose.And again Luke goes to sit on the wall at the Newbattle end of the path waiting for Jodi instead of walking the path to the Easthouses end to meet Jodi,why? if he knew she wasn't allowed to use the path on her own.

Still,as I say,I am new to the case and maybe this is just a myth,besides a fifteen year old is unlikely to obey everything her parents tell her,she may have used the path all the time,especially in daylight without her parents knowledge and Luke would have known this.

The funny thing is,if Jodi didn't turn up on the Newbattle side,why didn't Luke go along the path to look for her?
I believe most of the texting between Luke and Jodi was done before 5.00,and indeed Jodi left her house about 4.50,so why was Luke sitting on a wall at the Newbattle end of the path about an hour later waiting for her?
The thing is, the Mitchell family seemed to have a pretty regular supper time roughly between 5.00 and 5.30 when Corrinne got home from her work at the caravan park,so why would Luke arrange to meet Jodi just before five o'clock?
Just what time DOES Luke claim he arranged to meet Jodi? And more importantly,which end of the path?

What was said and done by everyone from about 4.30 to 5.30 is obviously what we need to know,especially what was exchanged between Luke and Jodi.What arrangements/plans they made I mean.
 
#93
Quote from: Tom Rogers on April 22, 2023, 11:36:53 AMLuke Mitchell Is Innocent - Detective Scott Forbes Tells All

What is your view of the case Tom? Do you think Jodi's brother was the killer, and was helped to escape the scene of the crime by the moped boy's?

Or do you think Mitchell is indeed guilty? I haven't a great knowledge of the case,but Forbes and Lean put up a believable case for innocence dont they?
#94
Luke Mitchell Is Innocent - Detective Scott Forbes Tells All

#95
Corinne Mitchell's speech at the Miscarriage of Justice day meeting 2011

#96
Quote from: Zak Beresford on January 21, 2023, 07:48:52 AMAgree Erik.

What's interesting though if we are talking from a relatives being jealous of Jeremy taking over and inheriting. It was a slow burning candle. He had been adopted by nevill and June from six weeks of age. He was their child. nevill was his middle name. It wasn't as if he was plucked from a care home at the age of 14. I find the term cuckoo completely childish and horrible to put it blunt.

Boutflour and co must have known from an early era that Jeremy would inevitably inherit all the assets. Then we are left with a situation that regardless of who committed the massacre. That boutflour and co jumped on the bandwagon and used the event to benefit themselves. Shelia gone. And to help engineer a campaign to put Jeremy in the nick.

There's the old addage of no smoke without fire. Though I must admit the idea that the relatives effectively "ganged" up on Jeremy to help put him away. I struggle now to see the difference that they genuinely thought he was guilty or they to put it bluntly just wanted the assets

Looked in on the Blue Forum the other day.  I honestly don't know how you put up with that crap.
#97
Quote from: Zak Beresford on January 21, 2023, 07:48:52 AMHello Zack, nice to see you back.

I think it's likely the relatives disliked both of them, but appeared better disposed towards Sheila as she would have been perceived as less of a threat to their interests.  As a man, Jeremy was in a direct position to take over the farm.  Sheila, too, was in a position to do so, but more indirectly, through her twin boys, who may have grown up wanting to be involved in the various businesses.  However, the twins were still very young and away in London.

Agree Erik.

What's interesting though if we are talking from a relatives being jealous of Jeremy taking over and inheriting. It was a slow burning candle. He had been adopted by nevill and June from six weeks of age. He was their child. nevill was his middle name. It wasn't as if he was plucked from a care home at the age of 14. I find the term cuckoo completely childish and horrible to put it blunt.

Boutflour and co must have known from an early era that Jeremy would inevitably inherit all the assets. Then we are left with a situation that regardless of who committed the massacre. That boutflour and co jumped on the bandwagon and used the event to benefit themselves. Shelia gone. And to help engineer a campaign to put Jeremy in the nick.

There's the old addage of no smoke without fire. Though I must admit the idea that the relatives effectively "ganged" up on Jeremy to help put him away. I struggle now to see the difference that they genuinely thought he was guilty or they to put it bluntly just wanted the assets
[/quote]

Looked in on the Blue Forum the other day.  I honestly don't know how you put up with that crap.
#98
Quote from: Erik Narramore on January 20, 2023, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: Zak Beresford on January 20, 2023, 10:56:20 AMWhy do the relatives seem to have a strong dislike towards Jeremy than to Shelia?

It has to be said that other than the occasional meetings and family celebrations etc. They had separate life's and were not the close.

I think we can all agree that Jeremys upbringing and general behaviour was a lot more trouble free than Shelias was

Hello Zack, nice to see you back.

I think it's likely the relatives disliked both of them, but appeared better disposed towards Sheila as she would have been perceived as less of a threat to their interests.  As a man, Jeremy was in a direct position to take over the farm.  Sheila, too, was in a position to do so, but more indirectly, through her twin boys, who may have grown up wanting to be involved in the various businesses.  However, the twins were still very young and away in London.

Agree Erik.

What's interesting though if we are talking from a relatives being jealous of Jeremy taking over and inheriting. It was a slow burning candle. He had been adopted by nevill and June from six weeks of age. He was their child. nevill was his middle name. It wasn't as if he was plucked from a care home at the age of 14. I find the term cuckoo completely childish and horrible to put it blunt.

Boutflour and co must have known from an early era that Jeremy would inevitably inherit all the assets. Then we are left with a situation that regardless of who committed the massacre. That boutflour and co jumped on the bandwagon and used the event to benefit themselves. Shelia gone. And to help engineer a campaign to put Jeremy in the nick.

There's the old addage of no smoke without fire. Though I must admit the idea that the relatives effectively "ganged" up on Jeremy to help put him away. I struggle now to see the difference that they genuinely thought he was guilty or they to put it bluntly just wanted the assets
#99
I am split,I really dont know what my gut tells me.

The problem for me is the lack of hearing Jeremy Bambers side of the story,I mean actually seeing him being interviewed and answering all the questions we want to know about and seeing his reactions.

I would also like to hear from all those who have had contact with him in the early days and months after his conviction.I realise for a while he would have been in total shock[if innocent that is],but afterwards I presume that he did nothing but protest his innocence to everyone he came into contact with.

I know if it was me,I woukd not have been able to settle at all knowing I was innocent.Is this what he was like? What reports do we have,what about the prison guards,the wardens,his doctors and psychologists?

And of course the other inmates,if they thought he was guilty,was it because of his attitude,did he come across as a psychopath?

It cant be because he addmitted his crimes to inmates,if any of them thought JB was guilty it must have been a mixture of his demeanour and the belief the courts simply got it right.

Of course many have been in contact with him from the outside,indeed he has a campaign team who are convinced he is innocent.Most of which appear to be quite sound and intelligent,actors,MPs and human rights campaigners amongst them.

Anyway,all I am saying is,its hard to judge someone when youv'e hardly heard them speak or see them protest their innocence.Know what I mean?
#100
The General Case for Reasonable Doubt / Re: What does your gut say?
Last post by Rob Garland - January 20, 2023, 08:59:41 PM
Quote from: Erik Narramore on January 29, 2022, 01:39:29 AMScenario 1:
Here we have a young woman with paranoid schizophrenia and a history of violence and threats of violence, who is estranged from her husband and works in dead-end jobs, dislikes her mentally-ill mother who adopted her and has disturbing psychotic delusions about her own twin sons.  She is disappointed by a meeting with her biological mother, who returns to Canada.  She is also a recreational drug user.  Her psychotropic dosage has been reduced drastically in the last month or two.  She is already in the house and has access to a rifle and a loaded magazine, with more ammunition nearby.  She argues with her father and she starts threatening to go upstairs with the rifle.  He cannot lay his hands on her and is also concerned to keep her downstairs and away from her mother and her own sons, so he tries to calm her down in the kitchen and also rings his son (her brother) while she is present.  When the son answers, she runs upstairs and starts shooting.  She kills her family, all at close range, including her sons, then turns the gun on herself.  She is duly found with the rifle on or by her body.  She is forensically clean, but it is believed she washed herself prior to suicide, as is fairly common.

Scenario 2:
Now we have a young man with no history of violence, who lives 2/3 miles away.  We say that he goes out in the middle of the night to the house, enters and leaves undetected and without leaving any blood traces.  He proceeds to kill his entire family, including two little boys in their beds, simply so he can have lots of money now and drink champagne and have meals at restaurants and go to St Tropez.  He may also buy a smallholding in Dorset - he hasn't decided yet, let's see what happens with probate.  He does this even though he already has a lot of money and a secure future with a large inheritance down the line.  He also tells his girlfriend what he is planning to do and then reveals to her what has happened after he does the deed, albeit obliquely in the form of a made-up story about a hitman - in effect, he is confessing to her.  She spills the beans to a friend, and this friend engages in horseplay with this mass murderer at her 21st. birthday party a few days later.  He'd planned it all out and even staged a few phone calls to put the police off the trail.  The police fall for it.  Except for one detective.  The killer spends much of his inheritance before he receives it, splashing out like there's no tomorrow.  He also allows the relatives, whom he does not see eye-to-eye with, keys to the crime scene.  This, after the police had offered the keys to him, which would have allowed him to easily dispose of any further incriminating evidence missed by the police.  The relatives come forward with the evidence instead, which had been mysteriously overlooked by the police themselves.  These same relatives stand to gain if he is convicted and imprisoned.  He even dropped hints to one or two people of his murderous intentions beforehand, including a hostile uncle.

Honestly, which of these two scenarios is the more plausible?

I know you are in the reasonable doubt camp Erik, but I am not I think JB is innocent.

Hopefully you don't think I am biased I have tried to look at all the evidence but the more I research the more convinced I am. To me it's a clear MOJ.